The following is a comment I left on "Jesus Creed"
http://www.patheos.com/community/jesuscreed/2011/03/23/rob-bell-and-c-s-lewis-by-jeff-cook/comment-page-4/#comment-132236
In my Master’s Thesis at Denver Seminary (1985) “The Apologetic of C.S. Lewis as an Art and a Science” I discussed 3 well-documented influences on Lewis: Rationalism, Romanticism, and Nostalgia for the Medieval Worldview. Of these, Rob Bell seems to share only the tendency towards Romanticism. Lewis prophetically spoke against the Modernism of his day as well as anticipating the dangers of Post-modernism. His clear commitment to Platonism and Realism in Ontology and Language respectively identified him as a pre-modern and, by his own admission, a “dinosaur.” To compare him with Rob Bell is Apples and Oranges. It is not doctrinal correctness that commends CSL to Evangelicals, but his clarity and succintcness in communicating the orthodox “faith once delivered to all the saints.” He takes no issue with the Apostle’s Creed and believes that words really mean something. He believes that signs can be accurately read and that symbols “participate in the reality of the things symbolized.” Rob Bell resonates with Post-Moderns by speaking their language. The real question is whether this language and the cultural worldview it has emerged from are capable of comprehending and incarnating the Truth of the “Word made Flesh” or whether PM requires rescue and transformation in order to “come to the knowledge of the Truth.”
Thursday, March 31, 2011
Tuesday, March 15, 2011
A Way of Seeing
One of the really fun things I get to do on my job is hanging out with non-Christians. I don’t know whether to call them unbelievers or “the lost,” or pagans or what. Truth is, any of these labels says too much without really saying enough. Okay, the fact that they don’t have a personal relationship with Jesus is really important. But defining them by what they don’t have is probably a bad way to start off, since it may conceal or obscure some of the good things they have to offer.
Anyway, I do like spending time with people who believe differently. I find them refreshing in their perspectives and often capable of raising questions or making observations that wouldn’t usually come up among our Christian sub-culture. Don’t get me wrong, I know a lot of Christians who are still able to “think outside the box.” But it comes with maturity and requires feeling secure in your faith and so these people seem to be the exception.
Mike T. was a most interesting guy I got to know about ten years ago. He was a “local boy,” whose father was high up in the University Administration. Like many kids from E’burg whose parents work in higher education, Mike was a high achiever with a passion for his studies. He had chosen a major in Anthropology and was definitely a student of culture.
“So what is it you do?” he asked after our second or third meeting.
“I’m the director of a Christian student organization.”
“Does that make you a pastor?”
“Well that’s what the job often involves, but recently I’ve been considering myself in the role of prophet.”
At the time I was very much taken with the New Testament office of prophet. The churches I grew up in didn’t do much with prophecy, but I had just met a man who exemplified the gift and the office like no one I had ever met.
“Doesn’t a prophet tell the future?”
“That’s the thing that we tend to emphasize, but among the prophets in the Bible we find that their message was more about forth-telling than fore-telling.”
“So what does forth-telling involve?” ”That’s basically reminding people about the truth of God’s moral law and the inescapable consequences of breaking it.”
“I suppose there is some continuity then between telling people how God’s laws work and warning them of future events.”
This is where I was impressed by Mike’s training as an anthropologist and his ability to apply it. He had learned to think in terms of “world-views” as he examined various cultures, their belief systems, and the social norms they had developed.
“I hadn’t considered that before. But it is interesting that in the Old Testament scriptures a prophet was also called a ‘seer.’ In every culture there are those who see things that others don’t see. George MacDonald called it the gift of ‘second sight.’”
“It’s the same with the scientific world-view.” Mike explained, “Those who understand the laws of physics or chemistry seem to predict the future. By understanding cause and effect they are able to anticipate consequences with great accuracy.”
“That’s profound!” I told him. “You’ve just drawn a parallel between the material world and the spiritual realm, and I’m not sure you even believe in the supernatural!”
“I don’t know if I believe it either.” He admitted, “But I’ve learned to examine belief systems as a whole to see how they fit together. That’s what I like about talking to you. You seem to have thought through the implications of your beliefs, rather than just picking and choosing ideas that may not be compatible.”
“My training in Philosophy of Religion also emphasized belief systems or world-views. I was taught to look for three things:
1) Consistency: avoiding contradictions.
2) Coherence: each part fitting the whole.
3) Explanatory power: how it answers our questions about the world.”
“If the things we have talked about are real, it would make sense for them to function according to laws or patterns, and this would allow someone who sees patterns to make accurate predictions.”
“I think that’s what I’m seeing in my work with students. I observe young people either applying or disregarding God’s truth and I see what happens as a result. The longer I’m in campus ministry the more examples I have of the consequences of moral choices. After awhile I feel confident in saying, ‘If you keep doing that, here’s where you’ll end up.’ Only it’s not always visible and tangible things that I observe.”
“What do you observe that’s not visible or tangible?”
“Paul says in Second Corinthians: ‘We fix our eyes not on what is seen, but what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.’ There is a special ability that God gives for seeing with the ‘eyes of our heart.’ This gift is also called discernment. By seeing in this way we sense with our spirit the spiritual condition of another person.”
“That sounds like what some have called ‘Extra-sensory perception’ or a ‘sixth sense.’”
“It seems appropriate to use the term ‘sense’ because our senses collect data or give us information. But in the case of discernment or prophecy, the information is coming from beyond the material world and its phenomena. It’s like ‘revelation’ because it gives access to something we would not have been able to discover on our own.”
“Revelation sounds like it’s something ‘revealed.’ So who’s the one revealing these things?”
“That’s right, the Bible is revelation because it is God’s revealed truth to us. In the case of prophecy and discernment God the Holy Spirit is the One who reveals. Paul says that when someone is prophesying and a visitor comes in the secrets of his heart are laid bare!”
Mike also helped me understand the process of conversion. It seems it has been the subject of a book exploring how change could be possible at the very core of our being.
“Have you ever heard of ‘Meta-Programming’?” he asked me one day.
“No, I don’t think I have.”
“This book talks about the difference between changing the input in our lives and thinking, as opposed to changing the way we actually process things.”
“You mean like trying to change the software in our brain?”
“Kind of like that. We have thought processes in place that actually limit the range of outcomes. There are only certain kinds of changes we can make within these limits. But if we are able to examine and restructure our way of thinking . . .”
“There must be something to that.” I said, “It reminds me of a verse telling us not to be conformed to the world, but to ‘be transformed by the renewing of your mind.’”
I can’t remember where it went from there, but it got real deep real fast. I think there were some thoughtful pauses and long periods of silence as we each attempted to think about how we think. I do remember a certain excitement as I thought about breaking free from limiting habits and failed attempts to change.
And I remember looking forward to talks with Mike. He asked good questions and offered insightful observations. I always learned something.
I love my job, hanging out with those who are learning, studying, and thinking. I enjoy sharing with them about my relationship with God and what I’ve learned from His Word. I’m glad I don’t have to convert people, that’s His job!
Anyway, I do like spending time with people who believe differently. I find them refreshing in their perspectives and often capable of raising questions or making observations that wouldn’t usually come up among our Christian sub-culture. Don’t get me wrong, I know a lot of Christians who are still able to “think outside the box.” But it comes with maturity and requires feeling secure in your faith and so these people seem to be the exception.
Mike T. was a most interesting guy I got to know about ten years ago. He was a “local boy,” whose father was high up in the University Administration. Like many kids from E’burg whose parents work in higher education, Mike was a high achiever with a passion for his studies. He had chosen a major in Anthropology and was definitely a student of culture.
“So what is it you do?” he asked after our second or third meeting.
“I’m the director of a Christian student organization.”
“Does that make you a pastor?”
“Well that’s what the job often involves, but recently I’ve been considering myself in the role of prophet.”
At the time I was very much taken with the New Testament office of prophet. The churches I grew up in didn’t do much with prophecy, but I had just met a man who exemplified the gift and the office like no one I had ever met.
“Doesn’t a prophet tell the future?”
“That’s the thing that we tend to emphasize, but among the prophets in the Bible we find that their message was more about forth-telling than fore-telling.”
“So what does forth-telling involve?” ”That’s basically reminding people about the truth of God’s moral law and the inescapable consequences of breaking it.”
“I suppose there is some continuity then between telling people how God’s laws work and warning them of future events.”
This is where I was impressed by Mike’s training as an anthropologist and his ability to apply it. He had learned to think in terms of “world-views” as he examined various cultures, their belief systems, and the social norms they had developed.
“I hadn’t considered that before. But it is interesting that in the Old Testament scriptures a prophet was also called a ‘seer.’ In every culture there are those who see things that others don’t see. George MacDonald called it the gift of ‘second sight.’”
“It’s the same with the scientific world-view.” Mike explained, “Those who understand the laws of physics or chemistry seem to predict the future. By understanding cause and effect they are able to anticipate consequences with great accuracy.”
“That’s profound!” I told him. “You’ve just drawn a parallel between the material world and the spiritual realm, and I’m not sure you even believe in the supernatural!”
“I don’t know if I believe it either.” He admitted, “But I’ve learned to examine belief systems as a whole to see how they fit together. That’s what I like about talking to you. You seem to have thought through the implications of your beliefs, rather than just picking and choosing ideas that may not be compatible.”
“My training in Philosophy of Religion also emphasized belief systems or world-views. I was taught to look for three things:
1) Consistency: avoiding contradictions.
2) Coherence: each part fitting the whole.
3) Explanatory power: how it answers our questions about the world.”
“If the things we have talked about are real, it would make sense for them to function according to laws or patterns, and this would allow someone who sees patterns to make accurate predictions.”
“I think that’s what I’m seeing in my work with students. I observe young people either applying or disregarding God’s truth and I see what happens as a result. The longer I’m in campus ministry the more examples I have of the consequences of moral choices. After awhile I feel confident in saying, ‘If you keep doing that, here’s where you’ll end up.’ Only it’s not always visible and tangible things that I observe.”
“What do you observe that’s not visible or tangible?”
“Paul says in Second Corinthians: ‘We fix our eyes not on what is seen, but what is unseen. For what is seen is temporary, but what is unseen is eternal.’ There is a special ability that God gives for seeing with the ‘eyes of our heart.’ This gift is also called discernment. By seeing in this way we sense with our spirit the spiritual condition of another person.”
“That sounds like what some have called ‘Extra-sensory perception’ or a ‘sixth sense.’”
“It seems appropriate to use the term ‘sense’ because our senses collect data or give us information. But in the case of discernment or prophecy, the information is coming from beyond the material world and its phenomena. It’s like ‘revelation’ because it gives access to something we would not have been able to discover on our own.”
“Revelation sounds like it’s something ‘revealed.’ So who’s the one revealing these things?”
“That’s right, the Bible is revelation because it is God’s revealed truth to us. In the case of prophecy and discernment God the Holy Spirit is the One who reveals. Paul says that when someone is prophesying and a visitor comes in the secrets of his heart are laid bare!”
Mike also helped me understand the process of conversion. It seems it has been the subject of a book exploring how change could be possible at the very core of our being.
“Have you ever heard of ‘Meta-Programming’?” he asked me one day.
“No, I don’t think I have.”
“This book talks about the difference between changing the input in our lives and thinking, as opposed to changing the way we actually process things.”
“You mean like trying to change the software in our brain?”
“Kind of like that. We have thought processes in place that actually limit the range of outcomes. There are only certain kinds of changes we can make within these limits. But if we are able to examine and restructure our way of thinking . . .”
“There must be something to that.” I said, “It reminds me of a verse telling us not to be conformed to the world, but to ‘be transformed by the renewing of your mind.’”
I can’t remember where it went from there, but it got real deep real fast. I think there were some thoughtful pauses and long periods of silence as we each attempted to think about how we think. I do remember a certain excitement as I thought about breaking free from limiting habits and failed attempts to change.
And I remember looking forward to talks with Mike. He asked good questions and offered insightful observations. I always learned something.
I love my job, hanging out with those who are learning, studying, and thinking. I enjoy sharing with them about my relationship with God and what I’ve learned from His Word. I’m glad I don’t have to convert people, that’s His job!
Monday, March 14, 2011
What do you value more than God?
Last Friday at the "Cave" discussion we had several of our NYC (not yet Christian) friends asking really good questions.
It started with a discussion of Hell, what that was like and why a loving God would sentence anyone to eternal torment.
"You don't hear much about Fire & Brimstone anymore. Is that really in the Bible?"
"Yes, actually it is, however unpopular. Jesus himself talks about it."
"So what's the point of punishing people just because they don't believe?"
"The core issue is really a question of ownership. If a Transcendent Supreme Being actually made us and the world we live in, we have some responsibilities to Him."
"Like What? Are you saying we owe Him something?"
"The truth is, as much as we'd like to think we are self-sufficient and independent, that's really just an illusion."
"How is that? What do you mean I'm not independent?"
"Food, water, the air we breathe and the fact that our bodies are alive are all a gift from God. He wants us to acknowledge that and give thanks."
"Why should I even believe in a Creator I can't see, much less be grateful to Him?"
"That seems like a fair question, but the Bible tells us that we have been given enough evidence to believe: in the world around us and in our conscience.
It says He hasn't left us without a testimony."
"So that's the big deal? He just wants me to admit He's there and He made the world?"
"Well, there's a bit more to it than that. You see the root of sin is a failure to give God the glory He deserves."
"So how do we do that?"
"It comes down to what we call worship. We all choose to worship something other than God."
"What do you mean by worship. I don't really worship anything!"
"Worship is a statement of what's valuable to us. And it's usually revealed by what we invest time in. It could be video games or sports or even school."
"You mean things that I devote myself to?"
"Exactly! Devotion is a way of affirming value, of saying what is most important to us. When we value anything more than God, we're failing in what He made us for.
He deserves our complete devotion and He made us to worship Him."
"Well I'm grateful for all the good things I enjoy. Why do I need to bring God into it?"
"It's back to the idea of independence. When we don't worship God we're actually in rebellion, because we don't acknowledge that it all belongs to Him."
"And if I'm in rebellion, He's going to send me to Hell?"
"Think of it this way - All the good things you now enjoy are from God. If you insist on denying or rejecting the Giver, you will one day be cut off from all of His Gifts. That will be Hell!"
"I value money - so what's wrong with that?"
"Every monetary system is an arbitrary method of providing tokens which we can exchange. It's not actually the money you value."
"I like what I can buy with it: Food, Beer, entertainment, gas for the car, paying rent."
"Sure, it's a means of exchange. We value what we can buy because of the lifestyle they allow. And because it makes us feel independent."
"So what about 'HEAVENBUCKS'?"
"Huh? you mean like God's currency?"
"Yeah, how can I get some HEAVENBUCKS?"
"Well, the bad news is that none of us will ever earn enough to buy our way into Heaven. We're morally bankrupt and our accounts are overdrawn. Those checks you've been writing for good works won't cash!"
"So what;'s the good news?"
"The good news is that because of Jesus perfect life and death on the cross, God will forgive your rebellion, cancel your debt, and even put funds in your account so you can start giving Him the glory He deserves!"
There was a bit more explaining to do after that. No one fell to their knees in repentance on the spot. But there were 4 guys and one young lady (NYC's) paying close attention to the discussion.
Join us in praying for their response to the Good News.
Matt Lundquist - Campus Ambassadors - Central Washington University - Ellensburg
It started with a discussion of Hell, what that was like and why a loving God would sentence anyone to eternal torment.
"You don't hear much about Fire & Brimstone anymore. Is that really in the Bible?"
"Yes, actually it is, however unpopular. Jesus himself talks about it."
"So what's the point of punishing people just because they don't believe?"
"The core issue is really a question of ownership. If a Transcendent Supreme Being actually made us and the world we live in, we have some responsibilities to Him."
"Like What? Are you saying we owe Him something?"
"The truth is, as much as we'd like to think we are self-sufficient and independent, that's really just an illusion."
"How is that? What do you mean I'm not independent?"
"Food, water, the air we breathe and the fact that our bodies are alive are all a gift from God. He wants us to acknowledge that and give thanks."
"Why should I even believe in a Creator I can't see, much less be grateful to Him?"
"That seems like a fair question, but the Bible tells us that we have been given enough evidence to believe: in the world around us and in our conscience.
It says He hasn't left us without a testimony."
"So that's the big deal? He just wants me to admit He's there and He made the world?"
"Well, there's a bit more to it than that. You see the root of sin is a failure to give God the glory He deserves."
"So how do we do that?"
"It comes down to what we call worship. We all choose to worship something other than God."
"What do you mean by worship. I don't really worship anything!"
"Worship is a statement of what's valuable to us. And it's usually revealed by what we invest time in. It could be video games or sports or even school."
"You mean things that I devote myself to?"
"Exactly! Devotion is a way of affirming value, of saying what is most important to us. When we value anything more than God, we're failing in what He made us for.
He deserves our complete devotion and He made us to worship Him."
"Well I'm grateful for all the good things I enjoy. Why do I need to bring God into it?"
"It's back to the idea of independence. When we don't worship God we're actually in rebellion, because we don't acknowledge that it all belongs to Him."
"And if I'm in rebellion, He's going to send me to Hell?"
"Think of it this way - All the good things you now enjoy are from God. If you insist on denying or rejecting the Giver, you will one day be cut off from all of His Gifts. That will be Hell!"
"I value money - so what's wrong with that?"
"Every monetary system is an arbitrary method of providing tokens which we can exchange. It's not actually the money you value."
"I like what I can buy with it: Food, Beer, entertainment, gas for the car, paying rent."
"Sure, it's a means of exchange. We value what we can buy because of the lifestyle they allow. And because it makes us feel independent."
"So what about 'HEAVENBUCKS'?"
"Huh? you mean like God's currency?"
"Yeah, how can I get some HEAVENBUCKS?"
"Well, the bad news is that none of us will ever earn enough to buy our way into Heaven. We're morally bankrupt and our accounts are overdrawn. Those checks you've been writing for good works won't cash!"
"So what;'s the good news?"
"The good news is that because of Jesus perfect life and death on the cross, God will forgive your rebellion, cancel your debt, and even put funds in your account so you can start giving Him the glory He deserves!"
There was a bit more explaining to do after that. No one fell to their knees in repentance on the spot. But there were 4 guys and one young lady (NYC's) paying close attention to the discussion.
Join us in praying for their response to the Good News.
Matt Lundquist - Campus Ambassadors - Central Washington University - Ellensburg
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